Block feature behavior informal poll
Hi !Friendica Support,
to settle a technical disagreement in this GitHub issue (not required to read), I would like to know what you expect on any social media platform when you unblock someone. If you were following them and them following you before you blocked them, you expect:
- Both follow directions to resume working automatically.
- Them to still follow you but you have to re-follow them manually.
- You to still follow them but they have to re-follow you manually.
- Both of you to have to re-follow each other manually.
- Other? Please describe your expectations.
Thank you in advance for your participation!
teilten dies erneut
mʕ•ﻌ•ʔm jeSuisatire bitPickup [italic~irony] .. ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •Steffen K9 🍮
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •Hypolite Petovan mag das.
Hypolite Petovan
Als Antwort auf Steffen K9 🍮 • • •Steffen K9 🐰 mag das.
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •@Hypolite Petovan @Steffen K9 🍮 I *expect* all communications to be severed and everyone has to follow again (#4), but not because it *ought* to be that way, but merely because other systems behave that way and because my mental model of the most likely implementation works that way.
Do, undo, return to original state (#1) is the *better* behavior and it's the intuitive one for anyone not trained on other systems or thinking like a programmer.
Andy H3
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •1. Both follow directions to resume working automatically.
Rational: Blocking might have be done for "temporary pausing", accidentally, or whatever. Having to reset the following relationship mode would be seem counter-intuitive.
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 mag das.
Andy H3
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • •clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛
Als Antwort auf Andy H3 • • •@Andy H3 @mʕ•ﻌ•ʔm jeSuisatire bitPickup [italic~irony] .. ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Yes, making the other party unfollow you is a privacy leak. So is simply not sending them messages, but less so.
Note that SharedInbox combined with not telling the other server their user is blocked leads to surprising behavior, yet this is what an AP node implemented the correct and most obvious way will do.
I suppose if anyone on a server is blocked by you, your messages shouldn't go to SharedInbox.
Andy H3
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Or hit in rage that one regrets a moment later.
hoergen (Ai)
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •@Michael Vogel the way you are describing it, it is called "mute".
Blocking always ends a relationship on every other social network.
Creating a new definition here leads to further confusion in comparison to all other networks.
@Hypolite Petovan
mögen das
Hypolite Petovan und clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 mögen das.
hoergen (Ai)
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •mögen das
Hypolite Petovan und clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 mögen das.
Wilhelm
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •Fabio
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •If I have "action" and "unaction", I expect "unaction" to get me back to the status i was before "action": "mute/unmute", "follow/unfollow" "block/unblock", "delete/undelete"...
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 mag das.
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛
Als Antwort auf hoergen (Ai) • • •Hypolite Petovan
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •Thank you all for your input, I personally am agreeing with @hoergen based on the behavior on other social media platforms I've been using (Twitter, Facebook) where blocking cuts all ties, but it seems Friendica users have different expectations. This discrepancy is an issue because by design we expect people from other social media platforms to move to Friendica.
Technically, all the cases are easy to implement, but we will need to explain this discrepancy in the interface and even with a well thought-out pop-up confirmation message, I'm not sure it will be enough to clear all the confusion, especially from people using apps based on the Mastodon API where the expectation is 4.
Hypolite Petovan
Als Antwort auf clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 • • •mögen das
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 und Andy H3 mögen das.
penny
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •Forcing someone to unfollow me is a critical feature even if I don't use it much-
This is especially true for accounts with approval where you may just not want someone to see your private posts anymore
It's not just wrong it's noticably broken to do anything but terminate everything
Hypolite Petovan mag das.
Hypolite Petovan
Als Antwort auf penny • • •clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 mag das.
Hypolite Petovan
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •- Friendica frontend will offer the possibility to manually revoke a follow.
- Friendica frontend blocking will not sever the current existing follow relationships.
- Mastodon API endpoint blocking will sever the current existing follow relationships to match Mastodon's behavior.
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 mag das.
Fabio
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •Hypolite Petovan
Als Antwort auf Fabio • • •Unfortunately, yes. We have to follow Mastodon’s behavior when using their API, because we have to believe this is what Mastodon clients and their users will expect.
On the Friendica frontend we can (and probably should) follow the results of this informal poll which heavily leans towards 1, even if I’d rather not but I don’t want to alienate the current user base.
Andy H3
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •What does 'mute' do ? Is this a new feature, @Michael Vogel ?
At the moment I can only see 'Block' 'Ignore' 'Delete'.
Andy H3
Als Antwort auf clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 • • •So does this mean we are a bunch of technical geeks without a clue what happens outside the world of Friendica?
Hypolite Petovan mag das.
Fabio
Als Antwort auf Andy H3 • • •Andy H3 mag das.
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛
Als Antwort auf Fabio • • •Hypolite Petovan mag das.
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •@Hypolite Petovan @Michael Vogel @hoergen Oh cool.
If everything is somehow clear to the user what it does, it sounds like doing the right thing might work then.
Hypolite Petovan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 mag das.
Fabio
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •Hypolite Petovan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Hypolite Petovan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •It doesn't really matter, we have no control over the messaging inside Mastodon-compatible apps, so we have to go with assumptions about Mastodon behaviors.
On the contrary in the Friendica frontend we have 100% control so we can do anything and inform users as such.
Hypolite Petovan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Hypolite Petovan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Hypolite Petovan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Alien (A23P)
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • • •Hypolite Petovan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •elrido
Als Antwort auf Hypolite Petovan • •I understand that as a Friendica user of 10 years I am in a small minority vs the many current and, hopefully, future users this software attracts, so I can understand that some older behaviors may (have to) change. I suspect that while I and users above do have a certain expectation on the behavior, there may not necessarily be a way to solve this that accommodates both (valid) view points.
I don't know if you have already considered the option to offer two different options to the users, "blocking" (which can be undone) and "block and permanently end relationship"? I'd imagine the argument against it is that it is confusing and/or causes technical complexity (requiring a new type of connection between user and the blocked account to be stored, which also requires a UI to manage these separately from contacts, etc.)
Andy H3 mag das.
Hypolite Petovan
Als Antwort auf elrido • •Aexi Ruch mag das.
Hypolite Petovan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •If they were using a specifically Friendica-compatible app, of course, but since we're piggy-backing off of the Mastodon ecosystem, I believe we have to take Mastodon behaviors into account.
Last but not least, many Friendica users (myself included) come from other platforms, whether it is Facebook, Twitter or even... Mastodon possibly. And all of these have in common the same behavior for blocking. So we just can't expect Friendica users to know exactly how blocking works in Friendica since it's different from every other social media platforms. This discrepancy is fine in the Friendica frontend where we can spell the actual behavior for users, but it is different in the Mastodon-compatible (or Twitter-compatible) apps that we can't control.
Hypolite Petovan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •