Just read a post asking Eugen to resign from developing Mastodon and I really have to ask: what are you folks smoking?
It’s his project. It’s open source. Fork it if you want to. But what kind of mind-blowing sense of entitlement drives you to think you can tell someone they should stop working on something they’ve built?
*smh*
Alexander Bochmann
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Yeah, asking for him to resign is going to stop the project dead. No one else has the know-how or motivation to drive it at large. Even the two well-known forks have minimal developer resources.
It's still not wrong to ask him to consider uses that are different from those of mastodon.social, and to lobby for features that may not fit his vision for future development of the software.
Meisam 🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Gert V 🇵🇸
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •OberstKrueger
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Claudius (legacy account)
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •spla
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •No Time To Play
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Mastodon already has several forks. That open letter mentions one. This account is hosted on another. It's not the same thing. Gargron is the founder of Mastodon. He's the face of the project. And the project isn't just a piece of software anymore, it's all our communities. Which are now at risk.
Tech is never "just tech". You should know better than most people. I thought you did.
Aral Balkan
Als Antwort auf No Time To Play • • •Right, tech is never “just tech”, it’s political. Fully agreed. So remind me where it says you have the right to make someone else stop working on something they’re building?
If the sternly-worded letter doesn’t work, what next? Should we shackle his hands to make sure he can’t type? Do you also take a kid’s Legos away if you don’t like what they’re building? Heck, even that isn’t a good analogy because the kid probably didn’t mold and craft the Legos himself.
*still smh*
dor
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •I haven’t read the letter, but a call for resignation is most definitely an act for the politics of the thing rather than the code. As such it feels disingenuous to me to simply insist someone fork the code. What are all the non coding contributors to do? Do they not get a say in the culture of mastodon just because their contribution area doesn’t have the mechanisms necessary to fork?
Is it a silly demand for an open source project? A bit. But that doesn’t make the people making the demand silly or drug users/addicts. For many people Mastodon is their first or only experience of the fediverse and/or open-source.
How do we build a community around the fediverse such that we can collectively push for changes when and where they are necessary? Does it produce a vibrant and healthy community if the only or main way to address leadership we don’t agree with is to build our own camp/software? Seems like a lot of repetition of effort to me.
Christopher M0YNG
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •for me I think it would be good to challenge and propose changes to the management structure of the software.
It's used by more than his two big instances, but I don't feel like admins like myself get any say in the direction of the software without chipping in code (and running an instance takes most of the time I might have to contribute even if it was incorporated) maybe a board or working group is needed?
But asking him to stop doing EVERYTHING seems pointless
Georg
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
Als Antwort auf Georg • • •Cool, if it’s your project, please keep building it and thank you for your contributions.
You cannot – and neither should you be able to – stop anyone else working on it (or a fork of it).
Georg
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Ivan Sagalaev
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Right, it’s not practical for most people to fork a project. Correct.
It is also absolutely ludicrous to tell someone what they can and what they cannot work on.
Jim
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Badly-optimised primate
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •virus.media
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •elrido
Als Antwort auf virus.media • •Aral Balkan
Als Antwort auf elrido • • •Florian Jensen
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •If so, who's forcing users to use that app? There's countless other clients for it if they'd like that feature.
Guerin
Als Antwort auf Florian Jensen • • •it’s more political : i mean, the official app removes core features that the creator of the software doesn’t like anymore… it’s kind of bad omens for those who likes those features. The fear that local and federated timelines might not be there to stay is legitimate.
I don’t think it’ll go that far, but i’m convinced that Gargron has a biased pov on his software, based on his experience on one of the biggest instances. And he already showed that he wasn’t always a good listener…
TBH i’m not even using mastodon so i’m kinda not the best suited to talk about that. Or am i exactly for this reason ?
Like i said elsewhere, i’m pretty sure we could find a solution that suits both people using local timeline for thematic / community purposes, and people who think those are useless, trashy or overwhelming : groups.
Cross-instances federated thematic groups that you could join from any instance.
They’d even be better than local timelines even for small communities si
... mehr anzeigenit’s more political : i mean, the official app removes core features that the creator of the software doesn’t like anymore… it’s kind of bad omens for those who likes those features. The fear that local and federated timelines might not be there to stay is legitimate.
I don’t think it’ll go that far, but i’m convinced that Gargron has a biased pov on his software, based on his experience on one of the biggest instances. And he already showed that he wasn’t always a good listener…
TBH i’m not even using mastodon so i’m kinda not the best suited to talk about that. Or am i exactly for this reason ?
Like i said elsewhere, i’m pretty sure we could find a solution that suits both people using local timeline for thematic / community purposes, and people who think those are useless, trashy or overwhelming : groups.
Cross-instances federated thematic groups that you could join from any instance.
They’d even be better than local timelines even for small communities since they’d really be about one topic.
Florian Jensen
Als Antwort auf Guerin • • •Guerin
Als Antwort auf Florian Jensen • • •since he doesn’t seem to like those timelines but a large part of his users do i think’s it’s not absurd to ask for him to deliver. He’s the one wanting mastodon to rise and gain more users. Yet he doesn’t really listen to his userbase.
Not all folks here are developers, we can’t all just fork. And maintain the new software. He has the skills, the funds, and the human ressources.
Guerin
Als Antwort auf Guerin • • •oh and btw i like how he says that public timelines are features for techy people and yet forgets that “decentralized-platform” (which is his main argument for mastodon) also is a feature for techy people
But that’s another topic
Aral Balkan
Als Antwort auf Guerin • • •Aroop Roelofs
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •I don't feel like he has to *resign* but should seriously change his attitude...
I've seen so much times of him "I don't like this feature, it won't be there", even if it doesn't cost him much effort to add beyond a review.
Do we *really* have to make 1337666 forks just because 1 guy doesn't want a particular feature?
Aral Balkan
Als Antwort auf Aroop Roelofs • • •Aroop Roelofs
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Seriously... it takes a few moments of his time to review a PR and press "merge".
Digital Mark λ ☕️ 🕹 🙄
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •As soon as you have users who depend on you, it's no longer "your project" alone. Continuing to ignore them and do user-hostile things makes him a tyrant.
If you turn Better into an ad farm, people aren't going to just say "oh well that's Aral's right" and keep using it.
Aral Balkan
Als Antwort auf Digital Mark λ ☕️ 🕹 🙄 • • •And no one is forcing anyone to use anything.
It’s a huge leap from “you can’t force anyone to use what you make” (agreed, entirely) to “stop working on your app because I said so” (which is what the open letter demands).
Digital Mark λ ☕️ 🕹 🙄
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •People are very invested in Mastodon already. The only alternative is a lot of effort to move to new software with risks.
So asking him to stop being a tyrant is the first "do less harm" step.
Matthew Skala
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
Als Antwort auf Matthew Skala • • •retroartdt
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Corconegre
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •- Asking politely to the developer of a software for a feature, with data to back up your choices= GOOD
- If no attention is paid you can always fork. Seems to be a lot of people interested (worse projects have been forked)
- Asking a developer to stop the project or give it away because you don't like a feature= BAD
- This is typical troll attitude
- No offense intended
- I do love local timeline
Raül
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •welt
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
Als Antwort auf welt • • •welt
Als Antwort auf Aral Balkan • • •welt
Als Antwort auf welt • • •Aral Balkan
Als Antwort auf welt • • •Aral Balkan
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •